VEGAN CONGRESSMAN DENNIS KUCINICH
Interviewed for the Abolitionist-Online by Claudette Vaughan
Congressman Dennis Kucinich became a vegan out of love. His then girlfriend introduced him to a vegan diet and in a recent interview he adds, “I feel healthy. I have a lot more energy, more stamina”. Congressman Kucinich believes that, “as a necessary component of the living world, we must extend compassion to one another and to every living being.” His Catholic faith has “had the most powerful impact on my life. I try to make every moment of my life prayer.” As a member of Congress, he has co-sponsored every piece of major animal protection legislation. In addition, he holds the distinction of being the only vegan in Congress. Living his life in accordance with his non-violent convictions it was an absolute pleasure to speak with Dennis recently. Here is our interview with him.
 Abolitionist: You have said our presence on the planet has a higher calling. What is that higher calling?
Dennis Kucinich: It is to evolve to become the best that we can possibly be and that is to let go of all of our fears, of all of our doubts, to expand our intellect, our spirit, our heart, to embrace each other joyously, fearlessly and to arrive at that place where mythology has called it ‘The Garden of Eden’.
Abolitionist: What do you think a non-human animals purpose is on the planet and do you think that humans have reneged their duty to the nonhuman animal kingdom?
Dennis Kucinich: Since I have a view of the world which is holistic, I think the diversions between ourselves and other species are often false. If indeed the world is interconnected and interdependent then whatever species we are part of a circle of life. Every plant, every animal, every human is part of a circle of life and we ought not separate ourselves so easily from that which derives itself from the earth, from that which moves across the land, from that which is our brother and sister whose eyes we look into and reflect a continuation of ourselves. It is the alienation and separation from nature that has caused the human species a tremendous amount of pain and anxiety and we need to reintegrate to create what one writer called “the re-enchantment of the world” which is our reconnection with nature and our reconnection with all that makes up the planet.
Abolitionist: Your ideas and views on non-violence are profound in an era when the Bush Administration is calling for ‘one hundred years of war’. Do you see your life and ideas on non-violence as a direct response against stopping their world from emerging?
Dennis Kucinich: The more that we practice violence, the more we lose our capacity to evolve to become the best that we can be. Violence is actually a form of separation from our higher natures. It is a concession to forces of destructiveness which exist in the world but which are always calling out for some counter-balance to be expressed. The Hindu Shiva needs to be balanced by Visnu. We need to balance the forces of destruction with the forces of creativity. War is not inevitable. Peace is inevitable if we are willing to, ourselves, become exemplars or channels of that peace. We have to have confidence that we can do it. And when we have that confidence and we understand that imperative of human unity we’re not then persuaded to capitulate the imperatives of violence.
Abolitionist: Can you talk about your veganism Dennis? For example, how did the Kucinich household celebrate Thanksgiving just gone?
Dennis Kucinich: We had a ‘Tofutti’ turkey which is a product made in Oregan which is a texturised, protein tasting turkey.
Abolitionist: I am of the belief that intensive farming practices and the terror inflicted upon the non-human animal kingdom is a microcosm of the macrocosmic world that humans inhabit. Animal rights people work for equal consideration for non-human animals yet the reality is for many humans and animals alike when it specifically comes to slaughter we’re all in the same boat. When Madeleine Albright was presented with a figure of half a million children under five having died because of sanctions imposed on Iraq, without challenging that figure Albright replied: “We think the price is worth it”. Now reports from the latest report on Iraq say over half a million of Iraqi’s have been murdered. How does one with strong guiding principles process that?
Dennis Kucinich: It’s our responsibility to stand up for what’s right. That we do not need to participate in the relative merit of one type of human suffering as opposed to another. All human suffering needs to be released. Each one of us can be agents for the release of human suffering. That to say that one path of action that has been devastating to a group of people is preferable to another path of action which is devastating to another group of people is in effect to decide that one person’s life is more important than another. The truth is each one of us has a right to be able to live out our lives without being subjugated by any one of us. So with the imperative of human unity comes the importance of standing up for each other and not permitting politics or ambitions towards domination to over-ride the quieter rhythms or pulsations of the human heart.
Abolitionist: Do you yourself believe that non-human animals should have basic legal rights that would see an end to their property status and prohibit all use and destruction of them?
Dennis Kucinich: I think that we need to reappraise the way in which we look at animals, that animals can have rights to exist apart from ourselves. That’s the natural state from which animals derive and so we need to consider the rights of animals. We need not dismiss them to some kind of thinking which says they are only here for our enjoyment. And so we need to get along with other humans so we need to find a way to peacefully co-exist with other species. In doing that we begin to learn more about ourselves.
I think that we have a society in which millions of people depend on a certain source of food and it’s a monumental under-taking to get people to think about the choices they make. By the way, one cannot force those choices but when one comes to understand the suffering that occurs of species and those in the animal kingdom we can then begin to reappraise the choices that we make in either facilitating or lessening that suffering. It’s all about what each one of us chooses for the world.
Abolitionist: The small farmers you have been approaching on the ideas of organic farming and going back by necessity to small organic farming practices, how have you been received there?
Dennis Kucinich: Generally farmers that are attempting to survive understand that organic farming is the way of the future. They also understand that it’s important for farmers to have a way to get their product to market to be able to get a good price for their product. That’s one of the reasons why we have to be aware of monopolies in agriculture. It’s also one of the reasons why we have to be aware of genetically modified organisms that are in the nature of our food. Organic farmers are serving a very important function in reminding consumers that there are quality food products out there that come from the land and aren’t in any way tainted, that local farmers do produce products that can be consumed at a fair price. Local farming needs to be encouraged. My wife and I shop at a market where we buy products that are sold from farmers that raise organic crops.
Abolitionist: You and your wife went over to Lebanon after the recent war there and witnessed all the suffering going on of the people. Even at a cursory glance it was impossible not to notice that Condoleezza Rice had no intention of calling an immediate ceasefire. It was never part of US strategy. What is your analysis of the situation?
Dennis Kucinich: After the fact it’s even more clear that the United States was encouraging the bombing and that’s why the US did nothing to stop it because they favoured it and so we have not done Israel any favours as someone who supports the existence of the State of Israel and its economic and physical security. I can say that the Administration has played upon the fears of Israelis, which are real and have used those fears to advance an agenda in the region which has not really been in the interests of Israel. What happened in Lebanon is a great catastrophe but the United States must take responsibility for it as well as Israel. And it has to be said that the US was in a position to help resolve some of the issues that lead to that immediate conflict. The US had an obligation to be involved, that Israel felt that it was threatened when the soldier was kidnapped and then responded in a way that was quite unfortunate. We have to look at what can be done to assure Israel of its security, what can be done to address the concerns of all parties in the region and to lift up the Palestinians from their plight, how we can assure the territorial integrity of all the states in the region.
Abolitionist: Noam Chomsky said that Iraq is a trial run because they are seen as an extremely easy and totally defenseless target. He said that it is assumed that Iraq’s society will collapse and that the US will control and establish the regime of its own choice there and put in US military bases. Then they will move onto something harder. On your website you are convinced Bush is gearing up for Iran and I’d also like to hear your views on the larger picture. Is it that they want Israel to have more land so that Israel will be the US’s strong arm in the Middle East against Muslims?
Dennis Kucinich: No I don’t see it like that. I see it in a totally different way. The fact that the United States has hegemonic ambitions in the region has made it impossible for the United States to be an honest broker with respect to the conflict between the Arabs and the Israelis. The United States should have been there to help discourage the building of new settlements. We didn’t do that. The United States should have been there to discourage the building of new walls being built. We didn’t do that. The United States should have been there to actively encourage discussions so that Israelis weren’t fearing from their lives every day. We didn’t do that. What we did do is to basically ignore years of work that Bill Clinton did in peace talks with the Israelis and the Palestinians and launch headlong into a so-called global war on terror ignoring the real exigent circumstances in Palestine and the conflict between the Palestinians and the Israelis when we had a responsibility to get involved. While the United States has been supportive of the state of Israel the motives of the United States always have to be questioned here because I would ask how has it been supportive of Israel not to help the Israelis resolve the conflicts of the region. For we in the United States to be on the threshold of a war against Iran and not withstanding that there’s been a lot of quiet about it, it makes many questions about what are we doing in the war. How can we ever hope to have peace? We have policies that help continue to fund wars and supporting further aggression.
Abolitionist: What are your thoughts on George W.Bush, from the Christian Right belonging to the pagan sect, Skull and Bones Society?
Dennis Kucinich: I don’t have any problems with whatever club he wants to belong to. (laughter) One of the things in the United States in our Constitution – our first amendment – protects freedom of association. I’m more concerned about the effects of his international policies which may create skulls and bones of living, breathing human beings as a result of war. To belong to an organisation, whatever its fraternal purpose says one thing, to carry out policies that erratically reflect that emblem is another.
Abolitionist: 40% now of all small business bookstores in the United States have folded because of the multi-national conglomerate ‘Borders’. My question to you is about the illiteracy in the US where in a rich capitalistic culture, where rich men make the rules on what people read, how they are educated, what religion is right and how people are expected to think the facts show there’s never been an era so full of cancers afflicting people, child obesity is rife and drug addicted children on Ritalin eating junk food, living sedate lives is the norm now.
Dennis Kucinich: Wait a minute! Rich men might make the rules but we don’t have to follow them. Reality is socially constructed and culturally affirmed. Each of us has the power to make our own choices about how we are going to live our lives out. Well we understand the dominant forces that exist in our society but we should give ourselves credit for being able to choose and choose again and not to be boxed in by choices based upon the economy of our nation. Sometimes it requires a most courageous way of living but I’m all for that.
Abolitionist: If you had to name only one verse from scripture, what one moves you the most?
Dennis Kucinich: Matthew Chapter 5 which really relates to our responsibilities to each other. “ When I was hungry, did you feed me…”. We have to realise that we are not simply our brothers and sisters keeper. We are our brothers and sisters. They are another version of ourselves and when we buy into the separation which is perhaps the most consequential philosophical default in our existence, that when we buy into the separation from each other, we set the stage for every kind of contest and assault. We are One. There is an imperative for human Unity.
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