Robert Perry Interviewed: “PERRY’S CIRCUS IS IN TOWN”

By Claudette Vaughan

* Please Note: These are the opinions of Claudette Vaughan NOT Animal Liberation NSW.

Abolitionist: Why did you contact me Robert?

RP: Well, I saw the story that Margaret Setter had on your website (The History of the Australian Circus) and I don’t think it’s appropriate that Margaret Setter should do a story on a circus. Look! I know Margaret Setter, not personally, and I think she means well in what she does – I think they all mean well in what they do, but how could she possibly write a story on the circus? She’s probably never been to a circus in her life before.

Abolitionist: What did you find offensive?

Robert Perry: She said the pressure that Animal Liberation put on the circus caused the Perry Brothers to go out of business. That’s not correct.

Abolitionist: What’s the true story then?

Robert Perry: Well, the true story is we had a family problem and I couldn’t get on with my brother’s wife. It’s as simple as that. And that’s all going to come out in a book that’s been written over the last 16 months. The name of it’s called “Sawdust and Headaches”.

Abolitionist: Tell us about Perry Circus. Did you start it?

Robert Perry: No my great, great, great grandfather did in 1835 when he was transported to Hobart.

Abolitionist: So it’s an Australian run business, a family business…

Robert Perry: Absolutely.

Abolitionist: How long have you been in the game?

Robert Perry: 51 years. You know I have the article here. When we showed at Liverpool, Ken Setter wrote an article in The Leader, I think it was, {and he said} “People like the Perry Brothers are like parasites on the community”. I also put a letter back in saying, “What’s he done for the community?”

We’ve raised thousands of dollars over the years for the community through The Lion Clubs.

Abolitionist: Ken Setter, Margaret Setter and myself want animal circuses abolished.

Robert Perry: You people are quite entitled to believe what you want to believe in. If you don’t want to see animals suffer or you don’t eat meat that’s quite okay but where it becomes horribly wrong is when you people try and force your will on everyone else. I mean that is wrong. Just because you don’t eat meat, you don’t want anyone else to eat meat.

On your website (animal-lib.org.au) one of our greatest cricketers, Greg Chappell’s says he’s for Animal Liberation, he’s half against animal farming but I tell you what, if anyone should give back all the money he’s earned, it’s him, from whacking a leather ball around the world. Leather comes from an animal, so that’s double standards isn’t it?

And let me tell you something else before we go any further and I cannot believe this. Margaret Setter and maybe you too are part of this is trying to stop these elephants from coming in {to Australia} from overseas to go to the Sydney and Melbourne zoos. Now that is a disgrace.

Abolitionist: Why?

Robert Perry: These elephants are from Thailand. They could end up being culled or shot just for their tusks. They could end up on logging farms. The treatment they would get in Sydney would be something that the royal family would get. You are doing more harm to the animals. Ask the animals what they would rather do. I should show you some photos of elephants getting skinned, culled and shot. Where do you reckon they would rather be – in the zoo or in the circus?

Abolitionist: Were the animals at Perry’s Circus treated like royalty?

Robert Perry: Absolutely. Treated better than family. If one of the kids got sick in the circuses we’d say, “Get a doctor later on “ but with an animal we’d get a vet straight away.

Perry’s Circus has operated in Australia for 150 years without one animal conviction so what does that tell you?

Abolitionist: What animals did you have at your circus in its hey-day?

Robert Perry: We had lions, tigers, elephants…

Abolitionist: What about the panther?

Robert Perry: We had a panther. A wonderful panther. Yes. All born in captivity.

Abolitionist: Do you think it’s right that they should be travelling in those little cages from fairground to fairground?

Robert Perry: They are not in little cages anymore. Australia has the best regulations in the world. When the circus started, when it was laid up here in Murray Bridge for about 6 weeks the animals got more people coming to see them that what they do in Sydney. Go around to Redfern and have a look at some of the places some of those kids are living in. They are living in about a 10ft by sq and they are humans. How come kids are treated like this in this country?

Abolitionist: What were your views on getting Arna, the elephant out of the circus because it’s illegal to have a elephant without a partner?

Robert Perry: Arna is a marvelous old elephant. I just saw her the other day.

Abolitionist: Did you get elephants in your circus to perform tricks?

Robert Perry: Of course we did. She’d stand on a barrel. She’d salute. What’s wrong with that?

Even in the natural wild habitat they stand up on their hind legs to grap the leaves from out of the trees.

Let me ask you this: Are you are all against animal farming and eating animals? You’re entitled to believe that. Yes or No? Is Animal Liberation against eating animals?

Abolitionist: Yes.

Robert Perry: You tell me this. If from now on everybody doesn’t eat anymore animals we’ll have billions of billions of sheep running around the country, there will be 20 billion billion cows and cattle running around – what about pigs? How are you going to feed them?

Abolitionist: Just as there is a over population problem with the human species…
(interrupts)

Robert Perry: What about fishing then?

Abolitionist: Both commercial and recreational fishing is detestable. Fishing is probably one of the worst areas that is underdeveloped in the animal liberation movement in Australia. That’ll have to be challenged.

Robert Perry: What are you going to do? Kill em? (laughs) When you say you want to ban fishing you know what you are now Claudette?

Abolitionist: What?

Robert Perry: A terrorist to Australia’s economy.

Abolitionist: The only way that some of these people exploiting animals will learn not to exploit the nonhuman animal kingdom is by hitting them first in their pocket - by making it personal and making it hurt. You can’t reason with these people.

Robert Perry: I have never ever seen Margaret or Ken Setter or Animal Liberation NSW – I’ve never ever seen them at the Olympic Games or horse dressage events. All these people running around with their top hats on, getting on horses and going over water troughs with horses landing on their neck, why don’t you go around and have a look at them?

Abolitionist: We do

Robert Perry: You don’t.

Abolitionist: We do. In the home of the Melbourne Cup there’s a lot of opposition to big jumps racing lead by Lawrence Pope. He led the fight and although jump racing hasn’t been banned yet, the Industry itself has been forced to change its mode of operation.

Robert Perry: Claudette, you’re always too over the top. I mean if people want to eat meat then they are entitled to eat meat.

Abolitionist: No they are not entitled to exploit animals in any way, shape or form. And people are learning that there are consequences derived off that action.

Robert Perry: What about horse racing? Is that exploiting animals?

Abolitionist: Yes – of course.

Robert Perry: How come we never see you at Warwick Farm or at horse meetings? Do you know what? They race horses down here in 45% temperatures.

Do you have a cup of tea in the morning?

Abolitionist: Yes, I have a cup of tea in the morning.

Robert Perry: Do you know what you are doing? You are taking a tiger’s environment away in India. This is because they are planting tea plantations and this takes away a tiger’s environment.

Abolitionist: I really want to deal with the 99.9% of animal exploitation and target where this is occuring – institutionised cruelty on the factory farm and in circuses is a good place to start.

Robert Perry: If you put the meat industry out of business, then you are going to terrorise this country. Everybody will be out of work.

Abolitionist: That’s not our concern. If you are earning your living off animal exploitation then you deserve to go out of business.

Robert Perry: Tell me this then. You go crook about a rabbit if a doctor wants to do research for heart research, don’t you?

Abolitionist: Not ‘crook’ Robert. We go absolutely berserk.

Robert Perry: Why don’t you put yourselves up {for experimentation}?

Abolitionist: We say due to human anatomy and physiology - this is better suited and performed on one’s own species as in AIDS testing etc. We say humans are better qualified for this reason for trials and experiments than non-human animals.

Robert Perry: I’ve never seen that. Some of the stuff on the website about Perry’s Circus is an absolute disgrace (the Animal Liberation NSW website)
You say about cousin’s of ours, the Sole Brothers, that someone was killed but you failed to say that it was because a storm in Sydney that was the worst for the last 50 years. Animal Liberation has gone too far over the top. They are fanatical. Once you get anyone who’s become fanatical they are very dangerous people. You can’t see anybody else side except your own.

Abolitionist: We want all animals free.

Robert Perry: But then you’ll end up wanting to ban fly spray to kill flys. I mean they are a health hazard.

Anyone who reckons that a rat and a cockroach has as much rights as a human should be in a mental institution.

Abolitionist: You’ve had your run-ins with the animal liberation movement in this country…

Robert Perry: I’ve had 25 years of them…I tell you what. I bet you they are glad I’m out of it coz I used to give them just as much back as they used to give me.

Abolitionist: I’ve heard that. I’ve never met you but that’s a well-known legendary fact around the place. How has the animal liberation movement impacted you?

Robert Perry: They haven’t impacted me at all. I can fight them all. I’m disappointed with Australians today that they don’t want to fight them half as much as I did. I’ve got some shocking cuttings here. I can go to my draw here and here’s one: The Animal Liberation Front has bombed a car and they nearly killed a vet’s son by the name of John Cupper. What about putting razor blades in Mars Bars? I have an article from Saturdays Advertiser in Adelaide where our wonderful Liberal government is not going to let you people terrorise farmers by just going and breaking in and things.

Abolitionist: Inspections are an important part of our work Robert. These farmers haven’t changed their psychological profile on their treatment of non-human animals since, well, forever.

Robert Perry: What about these animal liberation blokes that went and sabotaged the sheep lot? They put all ham and stuff in the sheep’s feed. Now that’s a disgrace.

Abolitionist: I think it’s probably one of the better direct actions that this country has seen before.

Robert Perry: Are you aware Claudette that Australia, this great country of ours, was founded with animals? You are entitled to believe what you want to believe here, but you are not entitled to force your will on everyone else. If you don’t want to go to the races, that’s fine. If you don’t want to go to a circus, that’s fine, but it’s not your right to force anyone, by telling lies, not to go to the circus. That’s 100% wrong.

All you do-gooders are destroying this country. You’re not allowed to smack your kid anymore if he plays up. We want to bring some civil people back like Kerry Packer. Strong people. He was a great man.

In this country now you’re not allowed to call a thief a thief, you have to call them a joy rider. What a lot of crap. Why don’t they get some decent people back running the country for gods sake.

Abolitionist: How do you explain away that extreme boredom that elephants sway restlessly to and fro, to and fro then?

Robert Perry: (laughs) They are just taking the weight off their feet. You people reckon he should be running through the jungle. How would you know? You’ve probably never been to a jungle. Where did you see this happening?

Abolitionist: In Christchurch.

Robert Perry: In Christchurch? Name me a circus in Australia where you have seen this happen.

Abolitionist: All of them.

Robert Perry: Name me one. You can’t can you? You can’t even tell me the last circus you were at.

Abolitionist: We’re so busy chasing you up and down the east coast Robert, I can’t remember every little provincial town we’ve been outside protesting.

Robert Perry: Come on since you are the expert on circuses, names the places where you’ve been?

Abolitionist: I’ve been a part of getting Arna out of the circuses and have protested her imprisonment vigorously.

Robert Perry: Come clean Claudette. You have probably never been to a circus in your life.

Abolitionist: I don’t know how you can live with yourself exploiting all these animals for so many years.

Robert Perry: You want to get around and see where the real cruelty lies.

Abolitionist: Where?

Robert Perry: Some of these communities in the western part of Australia to see them kicking their own dogs.

Abolitionist: These captive animals are not in their natural habitat at your circuses…

Robert Perry: No they are not captive animals. They are born and bred in captivity. That’s the thing. You people don’t know the difference. I challenge people like you to get a film crew and go to Africa and see what happens. You wouldn’t do it, would you?

Abolitionist: Do you think that circuses are archaic. They are 19th Century forms of ‘entertainment’ whose time has come to kill off?

Robert Perry. No. You have to be joking. What about some of this stuff on TV. What about all these murders and rapes contaminating childrens’ minds? People running around like Lynda Stoner showing their tits on television. What about that?

You can laugh Claudette but she’s an animal libber. She thinks it’s morally wrong to have animals, well I think it’s morally wrong for her to get on national television and show off her tits like that.

What about that? I know you are laughing but this is serious. She was trying to stop Paul Keatings pig farm. We ran into her up there.

Abolitionist: What to you want to say to people reading this?

Robert Perry: My message is simple. You believe what you believe in but stop forcing your will on everyone else. If somebody wants to have eggs for breakfast or abit of pork or abit of ham, let them eat it. It’s not your right to go around and stop people from eating meat. When you talk about meat you’re talking about leather as well. Let people wear leather shoes and leather coats.

If we practiced your will tomorrow, then this country would go down the drain. You’d bugga the economy. You would. You would. People would be out of work if you stopped horse racing.

Abolitionist: We’d have a better world. We have a vision of harmony and peace for all animals. We’re animals too.

Robert Perry: Yeah. Yeah. You’re just over the top. Kids are entitled to see a circus. It’s not like a circus has every animal in the world {in it}.

Abolitionist: The way that they are kept, the way they are maintained minus any rights, is not right.

Robert Perry: You believe it’s not right but a lot of people believe what you’re doing is not right either.

Abolitionist: A lot of people are ignorant too.

Robert Perry: No they are not ignorant. No. No. No-one’s ignorant. Circuses are the most open business in the world.

Abolitionist: Where is the voice for the animal in all of this Robert? Who will speak for her? Where is the voice for her rights?

Robert Perry: I agree with you. Anyone who’s cruel to an animal should be tarred and feathered. I’m 100% behind you with that. No doubt about that. You are raving on about old Arna the elephant being in the circus but I have followed her and have last saw her a couple of weeks ago. I followed her welfare around and if I thought she was being treated badly, it wouldn’t be you people that would be going crook, it would be me. Why would you want to buy an elephant worth hundreds of thousands of dollars then mistreat it?

Abolitionist: By having her in captivity is mistreating her. Elephants are highly intelligent creatures …

Robert Perry: Of course they are. Yeah they are so intelligent they know they just want to stay with the circus.

Abolitionist: What are your views on the court case that Animal Liberation NSW lost?

Robert Perry: Well I was there. What else I want to know is when are they going to pay the circus the $160,000 they owe them. Tell me that. That was an absolute disgrace. You’re spending money on an animal that’s treated well. You are picking on an animal yet some kids aren’t treated as well as they are. Don’t you reckon?

Abolitionist: No. And you know as well as I do, the way the world is going is by using only human talents in circuses these days like the Cirque du Soleil.

Robert Perry: You’re wrong there. Circuses are only dying because the people that are running them are dying. I had Stardust Circus here the other day and they were packed to the hilt.

These human “circuses” have stolen the good name of “circuses”. The circus wasn’t made for them. Circuses were established by the animal circuses of the world. If I want to go and see a tennis match, I go and see a tennis match, or if it’s a variety show, then I go and see a variety show and if it’s a circus, then it’s a real circus. Performing animals, that is.

Abolitionist: Lastly, what message have you got for Margaret Setter (who’ll be replying to your interview).

Robert Perry: Well she’s a wonderful lady. I think she means well. I think you mean well but I think you all have it morally wrong is by forcing your will on everyone else. Ask her about Alex Sanchez, friends of theirs. No 1 man at Liverpool Council when Mark Latham was the mayor. We had dealings with him too. He cheerfully admitted he’s never been to a circus. How can they comment?

I mean what about this thing with Greg Chappell making his living from whacking a leather ball around the place while he’s making his millions out of it. Is he going to give the money he’s earned from cricket back? I know you’re interviewed him.
Do you think that Greg Chappell has double standards? He goes against the farmers but doesn’t mind using a leather ball!

Abolitionist: I think our successes are always going to be incremental…

Robert Perry: It’s not incremental at all. He’s got double standards and that’s where it’s wrong.

Abolitionist: He stands up for what he believes in. We are vegan for a reason, so we can speak on behalf of animals. We are their voices.

Robert Perry: That makes it even worse. You can’t tell me you don’t take some animal products.

Abolitionist: No I don’t. None. I have vegan shoes on mate.

Robert Perry: You see, that’s over the top. You are entitled to that belief as long as you don’t force everyone else to your will.

Next time you have a cup of tea think about it. You are taking away a tiger’s environment off them. You better start brushing up Claudette.

Thanks for your time.