A POULTRY SANCTUARY
Bede Carmody Interviewed

By Claudette Vaughan

Bede Carmody is a well known gay and animal rights activist in Australia . Here we interview him on the subject of animal experimentation and AIDS testing.

We are not misguided, crazy or uninformed.
We are not anti-human.
We are dedicated and compassionate people.
We just do not accept that because non-human animals cannot communicate verbally the same way human beings do, that they do not count or should count for something less.

- Bede Carmody, animal rights activist

Abolitionist: As a gay man and animal activist can I ask you why aren't more queer activists protesting in support of animal rights, particularly against animal experimentation especially using animals for AIDS research when we know non-human animals can't get AIDS?

Bede Carmody: I know a lot of gay men and women who are what I define as animal activists, who probably wouldn't consider themselves queer activists, so I suppose it follows that the opposite is true.

Many people who identify as LGBT use a lot of their "activist" energies on the ongoing struggle for equality with straight people. That is their priority concern.

Having been involved in community activism for more than a dozen years in animal and human rights I know the commitment it takes for one to be "activist". Everyone is busy these days whether it be study, work, careers, family and subsequently the time to be activist for some is limited so they have to choose what are they are active in.

As to gay people protesting against animal experiments, again there are some out there.

I think the campaign against animal experiments is probably the toughest one for many "animal activists". Science is a complex area for most people. People - the general public - always like to hear good news stories about cures being found.

I think it's only natural for people in general, not just the LGBT community, who may know someone who is ill to seek the easy answer and wish/hope for a medical miracle which will result in a cure.

Abolitionist: People looking in at the animal rights movement often say why not concentrate your efforts on humans rather than non-human animals. How do you respond to that?

BC: Yeap that's one of their favourites.

The other common insult of course is "why don't you get a job". I remember that being said to me at a Moscow Circus demo once and I turned around to the women who said: "actually Megan I do have a job - I work with you!"

It amuses me that people think because I have established an animal sanctuary and dedicated my spare time to working on campaigns against factory farming that I don't care for people. I have actually worked for a number of years in fields promoting human rights and welfare.

I actually believe my animal activism, which has at its core promoting a diet which is free of animals, is actually assisting the human race in a way. We all know the health benefits from an animal free diet.

Now I'm older and (I like to think) wiser I usually don't respond to such cheap shots.

Actually when I think about it I reckon my involvement with animal rights actually gave me the personal strength to be the person I am today. I can remember the dark days when I was struggling to come to terms with who I am, one thing I would consider was if I wasn't here there would be one less voice for the voiceless in the world. In hindsight I'm glad my involvement with animal rights made me see I was a valuable person to have around in this world.

You mentioned the ongoing struggle for equality queer people face. Yet I believe here in Australia it's not as draconian as in some other countries.

That's right. Even though here in Australia I'm seen as a second class citizen in comparison to a heterosexual man when it comes to relationship recognition in some countries I could be executed for who I am - a gay man. Homosexual acts are still illegal in 71 countries across the world where it is punishable by jail terms of up to life imprisonment. The death penalty for homosexual acts still applies in Afghanistan , Iran , Mauritiania , Nigeria , Pakistan , Saudi Arabia , Sudan and Yeman. The method of execution varies. It can be hanging, as was the case of Ali Sharifi in Iran or being crushed to death as was the fate of 18-year-old Abdul Sami and Bismillah (22) who were accused of sodomy in Afghanistan

.

Abolitionist: How many people in Australia are HIV positive and how many have developed AIDS?

BC: In 2005 there were 25,243 people who were HIV positive, of whom 9759 had developed AIDS. Worldwide there are 38.6 million people living with HIV.

Abolitionist: Where do you think the majority of resources should be spent? Education or treatment?

.Both are required.

Education of safe sex practice, that is using a condom, and not sharing needles (if you inject drugs) is the best way to prevent the spread of HIV. At the same time people who are positive need to be treated and not ostracised from society.

I think it is horrific that in some overseas countries HIV is spreading because some aid organisations refuse to promote condom use because of religious affiliation. I don't see such an attitude as being within keeping of a so called Christian attitude.

Abolitionist: The human species has a shameful history of experimenting on homosexuals, Jews, people of colour, people in poverty and prison inmates. Justice and compassion are not exclusive. Can we expect change from the community on animal experimentation in Australia at some stage, do you think?

BC: The whole area of vivisection has always been tough one, fraught with pros and cons. I think it's probably the most divisive animal issue and I think it will remain so because of human nature - the instinct to survive. It's easy to bamboozle the lay person with science.

My personal belief is that if society more openly promoted the benefits that an animal free diet can make to people's overall health - that is lower rates of heart disease, cancers and the rest of it - there would be fewer ill people and as a result less demand for "miracle cures" and the associated experiments on animals.

We know from experience people willingly seek out products do not involve animal testing. How many companies are out there selling cruelty free health, beauty and cleaning products? However this hasn't transformed into people eschewing drugs and other medical treatments that may have been developed through animal experimentation to cure their ills - and that includes people in the animal rights field.

Abolitionist: How do you think this will occur?

BC: I do believe the only in roads on animal experimentation will occur when society seriously starts to work on health prevention rather than cure.

I don't understand why society needs to wait till there is a health crisis before it tries to address a health issue and demands a miracle cure.

Abolitionist: Many of us living in Sydney have had friends die from AIDS and it's a gruesome death. It's equally a gruesome death for the primates, dogs and mice that are being deliberately infected with the deadly virus. What would you say to the Lesbian Gay Bisexual Transgender Community to change their mind if they still believe a cure is possible by murdering and experimenting on non-human animals.

BC: One way to look at it is that if they have been testing for a cure for example sake's say cancer for so many years and the "miracle cure" is just around the corner why haven't they got there yet?

The medical research business is just that a business - they should be working to put themselves out of a job surely, just like those in the animal rights movement should be doing.

I don't think it's as simple as trying to convince someone in most cases generally about animal experimentation, whether it be HIV research, cancer research or heart disease. People are desperate to keep loved ones alive and can close their minds to such discussion.

It's great that there are some scientific types - doctors and physicians who now speak out against animal experiments. I do think you have to argue science with science. Unfortunately though it often never gets further than an emotional debate.

Abolitionist: Earlier you said you had established an animal sanctuary called A Poultry Place tell me a bit about it.

BC: Well it started as a dream. After a couple of years in the movement attending the demos, organising the campaigns and the like I wanted to do more. I wanted to be able to go on continually caring for some of those I was rescuing. Luckily I fell in with two guys who had established an animal sanctuary, which was my ideal - they had a 10 acre animal sanctuary where they took in various rescued and unwanted animals. I increasingly spent more time helping them out and then dived in and decided to set up a similar operation.

A Poultry Place is a five acre sanctuary, which as the name suggests is dedicated to providing a safe haven for rescued poultry - battery hens, broilers, roosters, ducks, geese and turkeys. There is also half a dozen sheep, four guinea pigs, two donkeys, a pony, dog, cat and rabbit. I decided to focus mainly on poultry because they are the most exploited group of farmed animals. I do what I can do - it's hard tough work and demands a fair bit of person sacrifice but I reckon I'm pretty good at it. Since July 2003 A Poultry Place has assisted more than 250 animals - not too bad for a one man show.

Bede funds A Poultry Place through working a number of jobs. If you would like to make a donation to his sanctuary send it to him at:

Bede Carmody, P O Box 3205, Murrumbateman, NSW.